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Religion in School (Vent) - 5/2/2008 12:44:08 PM
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StrongWill
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Okay my bad if my religion offends your's but personally I believe I have thr right to pray in public, why should I be ashamed of my religion just because your's is different from mind. Can we not reach a compromise, is it so hard to just shut up and get along for godsakes for the first time in the United States of America??????? Big deal if one of our teachers play christian music and you don't like it, so listen to your own type of music, they don't mean it as an offensive comment or remark, it's just what they believe in. Should we not all be fair to one another????
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/2/2008 3:16:27 PM
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csl7037
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Are you new to this country? Welcome to public/government school in America. (Only one of the hundreds of reasons my kids don't go to public.)
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/2/2008 4:06:12 PM
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artemis
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I understand that this is a "vent" post, but honestly, I'm not sure what you're saying.
You have every right to pray in a public place, including a public school. Teachers can listen to whatever music they want to in their free time or during their conference period. No one is asked to be ashamed of Christianity. Are you talking about a specific school district or a specific event? Nothing in your post sounds anything like my experience in public schools... 12 years as a student and 6 as a teacher. Could you clarify please?
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/2/2008 4:13:41 PM
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kernsfamily
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Praying in public in school? Perfectly fine for students.....adults? hmmm....depends under what circumstances....
christian music played by a teacher? hmmm....different issue....would you be perfectly ok with the music of a totally different religion that you didn't agree with?
Most teachers are aware that there are many faiths/beliefs in school...and, are prudent enough to stay away from that....for good reason. Though, with no students present, then, it's not an issue.
Perhaps you may want to become familiar with "Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools".....the document which outlines the religious free-expression rights of students, while also outlining the "limitations" of instructors/administrators in "endorsing/mandating" or "condemning" any particular religious activity....
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html
It's a great "primer" to what is a system that works....(for those school administrators who actually take the time to read the thing!)...
In a religious/ethnic/culturally diverse WORLD we live in, and thus school the kids go to, it's works great...as the students are allowed "freedom of expression" (prayer, bible reading, etc...etc..), and yet, the school is restricted from any "bias" towards or against any individual's religion.....same thing basically occurs here at the office....and most other places in the 'real world'....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/3/2008 1:47:46 AM
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ladyingrace1979
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Actually I don't think it was praying in public that Jesus was rebuking. I believe it was the attitude of praying for show, to draw attention to yourself and show how "holy" you are.
As to the op. By law any student can pray in public, they can have Bible clubs, they can even have outside groups come in and lead Bible clubs. It just must be student initiated. It has to be asked for or wanted by the students themselves. A teacher can talk about their faith IF a student asks.
The whole idea is to allow the students freedom to practice their religion without having those in authority appear to be supporting one over the other. In a society with as many different religions as we have it is the safest way to run things. Especially when children are young and adore their teachers, imagine if a favorite teacher starts to talk up Budism or Islam, the student is likely to be very interested or swayed. They do teach the history of religions but they don't delve into the beliefs. My 7th grader is studying the protestant reformation right now.
So if you want your children in a purely Christian environment then put them into a Christian school. I myself don't want the public schools teaching religion or prayer.
Kim Q
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/3/2008 3:11:54 PM
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StrongWill
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Okay yea it's a certian school, a certain district, Okay 1, I'm not showing my holyness cause 1 I'm not holy, Jesus and God are holy but me.............far from it, well duh you know I'm human. No I was not born into a religious envirement so I'm still learning, actually I was born into a more, anit-religous envirement then anything so my bad if my post offended you or if went again something the bible said, so just post where in the bible it might say something again praying in public to show holiness and I'll look it up asap and reply once more. There is no clubs at our school for any Christians to meet because we werent allowed to have one. But we did get to pray once in the morning in the begining of the year but many couldn't show up because of how far away the school is so by the time they got there it was over. So.......reply if you wnat.
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Forever and Always aren't just words, there a promise!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/3/2008 5:01:41 PM
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artemis
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StrongWill
Okay yea it's a certian school, a certain district, Okay 1, I'm not showing my holyness cause 1 I'm not holy, Jesus and God are holy but me.............far from it, well duh you know I'm human. No I was not born into a religious envirement so I'm still learning, actually I was born into a more, anit-religous envirement then anything so my bad if my post offended you or if went again something the bible said, so just post where in the bible it might say something again praying in public to show holiness and I'll look it up asap and reply once more.
I don't think you said anything unbiblical, but people who work in or have their children in public schools are often berated by other Christains for their choice to use public schools. Some of us are a little defensive whenever we hear a "rant" about public schools  Especially since most people here who have their kids in a public school do so because they think it is the best decision for their child and that the schools in their area are pretty good.
quote:
There is no clubs at our school for any Christians to meet because we werent allowed to have one.
The school where I teach does not have any Christian clubs, either, but they also don't have any clubs for the Buddist students or the Hindu students. If you allow one club, you legally should allow all of them and many public schools have chosen to ban all religious clubs to avoid having to make those decisions. Personally, I think that's probably best if it's going to be an issue (some areas don't have such a wide variety of religions and it might not matter to them).
quote:
But we did get to pray once in the morning in the begining of the year but many couldn't show up because of how far away the school is so by the time they got there it was over.
Are you talking about "See you at the Pole"? My principal said once that he gets more phone call complaints on "See you at the Pole" day than any other day of the year  Apparently we have a large Jewish population that throws a fit every time the Christian kids get to pray before school, outside the building.
But any day of the year, you're allowed to pray whenever you want to. You just can't do it over the intercom and it can't be teacher led or anything. You are absolutely allowed to bow your head before a test or at lunch or anything of that nature. And there are two sides of that coin... yeah, the Christians can't recite the Lord's Prayer as part of the daily annoucements, but when my Muslim students have to pray, they go to the counseling center and do it during their lunch time. They, too, are not allowed to make everyone else pray with them.
Just my thoughts...
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/15/2008 7:59:43 AM
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StrongWill
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Okay I can see where you are coming from, definetely, well I can't really help that I'm in a public school you know, Mom's choice not my own. And yes it is see you at the pole that I was talking about but we didn't get ANY complaints from anyone but hey no big deal I'll sit here and be quiet and bow my head privately but the minute someone brings up God and says something bad about him I'm going to throw a fit no matter if it offends them or not because they just offended me. An eye for eye is all I got to say. Oh yea and whenever my friends have questions about all of that I try to answer them the best I can and they just keep pushing it and in the end of it all the try to holler that I'm shoving stuff down their throat so I just shut up and said fine, you can make your own choice with the information you might need. And that is the end of that.
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Forever and Always aren't just words, there a promise!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/15/2008 9:56:09 PM
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MrsTracy72
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Strongwill, first I want to tell you that my kids are in public school because the "Christian" school they were in, was in my opinion not Christian. They seemed more worried about church attendance but not about what the kids got out of it. Basically, it came down to being in church so that you could add to the offering plate.
We are happy to be in a great public school, and while my daughters grade school didn't do Meet me at the pole, the middle and highschool did and there was not a word about it. I thought it was cool that they all got out there and showed that they were not going to hide their faith.
While I know that the school is not allowed to preach or ask the kids to pray together, it is not wrong to sit at your desk and bow your head in silent prayer. That is the BEST thing you can do if it is what you would normally do. You would be a quiet example for the people around you without being boastful. Just by doing what you normally do. Not a word about it. Just do it.
If anybody does have anything negative to say, rather than go off on them and offend them, invite them to join you. If they decline, then let them. Your job is to live your life as Christ would. Do we do that all of the time? No, we are human and we do sin. BUT you do have that option. And if words are said, ignore them or simply tell them that you would appreciate it if they would not make those comments to you. And let that be that. If people make nasty comments, they are trying to make you angry. They want you to break. Then they can get to look at you and throw your Christianity right back in your face.
Just be an example and invite others to join. If they don't know Christ, introduce them. You never know who is going to say yes. But don't go out offending people in the name of Christ. That is not what he wants. Show love and you will get much further.
Now, if a teacher tells you that you are not allowed to bow your head in silent prayer, then that is a whole different story. They are not allowed to do that. Then you have a reason to tell them that you have a right to do that and if that doesn't do it, then you can take it higher up. But don't go looking for a fight. Look for peace. That is just my opinion.
Tracy
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/16/2008 5:56:48 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StrongWill
but the minute someone brings up God and says something bad about him I'm going to throw a fit no matter if it offends them or not because they just offended me. An eye for eye is all I got to say.
Is that really the best response? Reacting like that feeds into all the negative hypocritical stereotypes and attitudes you're complaining about.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/21/2008 9:51:20 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
An eye for eye is all I got to say
Well, if you wanna get all religious and biblical, what did Jesus say about 'an eye for an eye'?
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/22/2008 9:24:49 PM
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SteveSund
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: StrongWill
but the minute someone brings up God and says something bad about him I'm going to throw a fit no matter if it offends them or not because they just offended me. An eye for eye is all I got to say.
Is that really the best response? Reacting like that feeds into all the negative hypocritical stereotypes and attitudes you're complaining about.
-Dan.
Good question Dan. We had a similar question in a Bible Study last week when a youth asked about a person at their school that was very confrontational and aggressive in her witnessing. One of the leaders pointed us to James 3:17-18:
quote:
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 5/27/2008 4:51:05 AM
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StrongWill
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Okay, Okay I get it so just be calm, I can do that, I think. Okay's lets make a note to self. Stay cool, don't let your temper get the best of you, think about what Jesus would do, be a good example and show them that not all Christians are stuck up snobs who try to shove stuff down your throat. Okay I think I got it, anymore tips?
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Forever and Always aren't just words, there a promise!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 6/17/2008 3:30:24 PM
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cynthia
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StrongWill
Okay, Okay I get it so just be calm, I can do that, I think. Okay's lets make a note to self. Stay cool, don't let your temper get the best of you, think about what Jesus would do, be a good example and show them that not all Christians are stuck up snobs who try to shove stuff down your throat. Okay I think I got it, anymore tips?
From what you have said, you are a high school student and a new Christian, is that correct?
Are you able to attend church? Is there a man who would mentor you? My tip is that you spend time in the word and in prayer daily. That you ask the Lord to give you a sense of His peace and to help you grow in grace and love. As Him to show you other resources, like Bible study materials that will help you in your Christian walk.
It is wonderful to be on fire for the Lord, but we are to be gentle and peaceful about it, not in your face or trying to win people through fear or judgment. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict.
I do not think the school is able to stop students from praying at the flag pole. That is just a meeting place for prayer to take place. If they are stopping students from praying, unless there are circumstances you have not revealed, they are in violation of the law. You might want to get in touch with the group that handles See You At The Pole and ask them for direction. Whatever you do must be done by the leading of the Holy Spirit or it will not go well for you.
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 6/18/2008 9:27:50 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I do not think the school is able to stop students from praying at the flag pole. That is just a meeting place for prayer to take place. If they are stopping students from praying, unless there are circumstances you have not revealed, they are in violation of the law. You might want to get in touch with the group that handles See You At The Pole and ask them for direction. Whatever you do must be done by the leading of the Holy Spirit or it will not go well for you.
absolutely....as a Christian student, you should familiarize yourself with a document called, Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, published by the U.S. Dept. of education.....most schools are "up to speed" a students rights/freedoms, but, sadly, some are not, and do not take the time to learn this material....which, is how "situations", such as students being told they cannot pray or read the bible, occur, and then get blown WAY OUT of proportion in the media by those with anti-public school agendas....(which perpetuates the myth that prayer in school has been "removed" and bibles have been "banned"...which is so untrue, it's laughable)
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html
regarding prayer, here's a "snippet" which mentions the "flag pole" praying.....
Organized Prayer Groups and Activities
Students may organize prayer groups, religious clubs, and "see you at the pole" gatherings before school to the same extent that students are permitted to organize other non-curricular student activities groups. Such groups must be given the same access to school facilities for assembling as is given to other non-curricular groups, without discrimination because of the religious content of their expression.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 6/26/2008 2:35:36 PM
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jmpjbc
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Hello,
First I want to say welcome to the faith! Second, I am a teacher in a public school and I am also administrator of our school's FISH club. This is a bible based club run by students which meet in the morning once a week to get together and pray, read scriptures together, and evangilize to their fellow students. FISH stands for Focus, Inspiration, Share, and Hook. Each week we go through and follow each area as best we can in accordance with our leader guide. The information can be found at www.catchthis.net
I would suggest that you find a willing teacher or two and discuss this or a similar program. As kernsfamily said earlier, students have the right by law to have organized prayer groups, clubs, etc. You may e-mail directly if you have any questions about the club. I'll do the best to help.
In the mean time stand firm in your faith and be ready to witness not only by words but by actions.
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 7/24/2008 1:51:42 PM
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maverickmom
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quote:
StrongWill
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline Okay my bad if my religion offends your's but personally I believe I have thr right to pray in public, why should I be ashamed of my religion just because your's is different from mind. Can we not reach a compromise, is it so hard to just shut up and get along for godsakes for the first time in the United States of America??????? Big deal if one of our teachers play christian music and you don't like it, so listen to your own type of music, they don't mean it as an offensive comment or remark, it's just what they believe in. Should we not all be fair to one another????
I understand and agree. We had this truly obnoxious man last christmas who threatened to sue the school his kid attended and our local shopping mall for having christmas and recognizing christmas because he is some sort of atheist. It was soooooo annoying, and he was soooooo ultra defensive, out there using passages from the constitution and such I just wanted to scream
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 8/4/2008 10:34:51 AM
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StrongWill
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Okay Good tips, I'm working on that, I go to a small town baptist church, but I'm on here alot to pray and stuff in the chatrooms. Yea I hate it when people just blow "Merry Christmas" out of proportion and now everyone has to say "Happy Holidays." ?? Kinda ridiculous but hey there choice. I'm working on being a more Christ-like and a good Christian example and just allowing God to work through me.
_____________________________
Forever and Always aren't just words, there a promise!
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RE: Religion in School (Vent) - 8/26/2008 12:09:43 PM
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rp1
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Hi StrongWill. Like others, I'd like to welcome you to the faith.
Religion in public school is an issue. Prayer is one apsect of it. But let me point out another aspect. Science. The public schools presume to teach science in the classroom. But often, they seem to be teaching the philosophy of naturalism. Many science teachers seem to ignore the philosophical implications of science...particularly when the evidence points to God.
If you read my book, The Science and Myth about Genesis Chapter 1 (See http://rpreitz.tripod.com/ ) you will learn how science actually supports and corroborates the Genesis account and how, if you believe in the findings of science, then you come to the conclusion that God must exist. Not just any God. The God of the Bible. You will also learn something about Einstein's theory of Relativity, how time and space are physical quantities and how a nonphysical Spiritual Being transcends time and space. You will learn much about Earth science. If you absorb the information in the book, you will be well-armed when you talk to your freinds about whether or not the Bible is true, whether God exists and how the evidences of the sciences point to God.
What you learn in school, what you are taught in school...matters greatly. Years ago, long before I became a research physicist, I went to public high school. I was a believer then like you are now.
Some words of advice:
Keep your faith. Read your Bible. Learn what the Lord delights in...what He is interested in. Walk with Him...pray every day. (Some of my most fond memories of my high school years are the times when I would go out walking with my dog and praying to the Lord.) Now is the time to establish the foundations of your life-long relationship with Him. Remember that life is not about making money or sex or drugs or alcohol or gaining political, social or economic influence. Remember that life is not about fame either. It is about love. Loving the Lord, loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your friends and enjoying the good things that you can see in their character: integrity, courage, willingness to learn, trustworthiness, responsibility, having follow-through and perseverence, exercising good judgment, etc. etc.
Don't let the public school system brainwash you. Take what real knowledge that it can impart and disregard the garbage.
I wish you well.
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