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RE: I need some opinions - 7/6/2008 3:50:30 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
So you would always link tattoos with bad morals, would you? I see.
Actually, no, you don't see. I never linked tattoos with bad morals. You made that quantum leap not me - I stated tatoos were associated with the pagan society around the Israelites . Which they certainly were.
I also stated that I do not think Christians should get them.
Do I think Christians who get them automatically have 'bad' morals?
That would be downright stupid of me - so, I don't appreciate you saying that is what I said.
At this point, however, you are talking about dangly earrings....that is why I put question marks.
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/6/2008 4:02:12 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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It's all very well to say you dont appreciate me thinking you linked tattoos with bad morals but if you go back to your post which I quoted from, some ppl might get that impression anyway.
But sorry if I got the wrong impression.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
So you would always link tattoos with bad morals, would you? I see.
Actually, no, you don't see. I never linked tattoos with bad morals. You made that quantum leap not me - I stated tatoos were associated with the pagan society around the Israelites . Which they certainly were.
I also stated that I do not think Christians should get them.
Do I think Christians who get them automatically have 'bad' morals?
That would be downright stupid of me - so, I don't appreciate you saying that is what I said.
At this point, however, you are talking about dangly earrings....that is why I put question marks.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/6/2008 4:17:08 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
if you go back to your post which I quoted from
I do not see a quote - would you kindly refer to that quote where I said that everyone who gets a tattoo has 'bad' morals?
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/6/2008 10:24:58 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
I stated tatoos were associated with the pagan society around the Israelites . Which they certainly were.
I also stated that I do not think Christians should get them.
Assuming that this pagan connection is the reason you think Christians should not get tattoos (if it is not, then please elaborate on exactly why you feel we should not get them), then I fail to understand how you can also say
quote:
Meat sacrificed to idols would have been part of a pagan ritual.
and say that no Christian should get a tattoo. Paul says it is acceptable for some Christians to eat this meat, despite the pagan connections, correct? So why should tattoos, despite their pagan connections, be forbidden?
quote:
First of all, Romans 14 IS addressing faith - BUT with a very specific application, again, for the little problem they were having in Rome. The problem I have with making broad applications from this chapter, is that AGAIN you cannot take one chapter from the NT and us it in such a broad application.
So... Why isn't James 2:1-7 just talking about seating arrangements?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 8:08:35 AM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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solarflare:
Okay so I quoted this from your post of July 2:
(From: 'What things?') "Tatoos? NO!"
Now look at the preceding paragraph but 2, and you refer to adultery. I can't read your mind, but non experts about your mind might reasonably leave it open to assume that your line of thought was something along the lines that I suggested.
So thanks for your clarification that you meant something else after all.
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
if you go back to your post which I quoted from
I do not see a quote - would you kindly refer to that quote where I said that everyone who gets a tattoo has 'bad' morals?
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 11:32:30 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
solarflare:
Okay so I quoted this from your post of July 2:
(From: 'What things?') "Tatoos? NO!"
Now look at the preceding paragraph but 2, and you refer to adultery. I can't read your mind, but non experts about your mind might reasonably leave it open to assume that your line of thought was something along the lines that I suggested.
So thanks for your clarification that you meant something else after all.
Take care.
I found the post you mentionned - it does not say what you seem to think it says. So, take care! 
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 12:18:22 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
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spdrgrl603:
I think you're referring to the Genesis passage about Rebecca and Isaac's servant, right?
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: spdrgrl.603
women back then in the bible also had their noses peirced when they where engaged. tattoos i have three and i posted on "tattoos anyone"
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 1:13:56 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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613 commandments between the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Jesus referred to all 5 books of Moses as the Law, it was, technically, limited to these four books.
248 positive and 365 negative - including the 10 commandments - which is the heart of the law. Theologians have divided this law into two parts - moral and ceremonial.
Jesus fulfilled the law pertaining to the ceremonial aspects - there can be no other conclusion. Quote: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks
one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Matt. 5: 17-19
By the time Jesus was quoting the above, religious leaders had turned the laws into a confusing regimen of human rules. Jesus was putting the focus on the original purpose of the law - he was speaking out against the abuse and excess - not the law itself.
The CEREMONIAL law was specifically related to Israel’s worship and ordained and given by God to Moses for the nation of Israel. Its primary purpose was to foreshadow Jesus as the final High Priest. We (and literally the Jews as well, if they believe in Jesus) are no longer bound by ceremonial laws - but the purpose behind them, still applies - that purpose is to love and worship God in His holiness.
The CIVIL law applied to daily living in Israel. We still have a civil code of law in this country.
The MORAL law - such as THE TEN COMMANDMENTS - is a DIRECT COMMAND of God - NOT open to interpretation and it requires STRICT obedience. The moral law reveals the nature and will of God -ie. God IS Holy - therefore He cannot look upon sin - hence the ceremonial law which the Israelites had to obey in order to approach God. Hence, the enormous system of sacrifice in place AT THAT TIME, and no longer applicable as Jesus is the final sacrifice - the perfect, spotless lamb who
takes away the sin of the world.
So, Jesus said two diametrically opposing things if there is really only one type of law.
It needs to be remembered that the NT was written basically to those who knew the law and would not misunderstand what Jesus said and would not find his words to be in conflict.
Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial law - the law which required a system of sacrifice, cleansing and very specific patterns of worship - the temple veil was torn in two when when Jesus died. It was torn from the top to the bottom - God tore the veil to indicate that a new way into the Holy of Holies had been made through the sacrifice of His son.
In this manner, the ceremonial laws were done away with. That means that the system of sacrifice was no longer in effect. The 10 commandments are still applicable and point out how sinful we are. As we cannot possibly keep them, Jesus has made a way for us to be forgiven and to be able to approach God without all the ceremony that the Israelites had to apply in order to be forgiven.
Why did God state that the Israelites should not tattoo themselves? He wanted a nation that represented Him - that was unlike the pagan nations around them. He wanted a nation that represented His holiness and outward obedience was an indication of that Holiness.
Why did God not allow for types of material to be woven together? It was an outward indication that the Israelites were set apart to God - ie. They were not to mix with the nations around them.
Why did God not want the Israelites to plant too kinds of seed in the same field?
Same reason as above.
Colossians 3:5 “Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming.”
Col. 2:16 -17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come, the reality, however, is found in Christ. This verse is referring to the ceremonial law which was completed in Christ and no longer applicable.
It was a FORESHADOWING - the animal sacrifices could not even really pay the price for human sin.
A shadow of the things that were to come - what things? The fulfillment of this part of the law by Jesus.
THAT is why the law is divided into two parts - that which is now done away with, and that which is in effect until heaven and earth pass away.
James actually goes so far as to say: For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 This indicates that the part of the law Jesus referred to, has indeed, not passed away.
HERMENEUTICS is the art or science of interpretation of written texts - not jus the Bible, but texts in general. Within Christianity, however, the term generally refers to methods of interpreting the Bible.
For interesting reading, a Hermeneutics test that YOU can take - to see for yourself whether you are conservative or liberal., or inbetween. Do you really believe what you think you do? How do you interpret your Bible? This is not just the question on this thread but a major concern as the shift from conservative interpretation swings towards liberalism and such ‘theories’ as ‘miracles in the Bible are not real - they are just
stories to illustrate a point.
So, don't take my word for it - I am conservative in my interpretation. I did not need to take a test to find that out - but it was informative.
http://buildingchurchleaders.com/assessments/individuals/hermeneuticsquiz.html
I am done disagreeing and agreeing to disagree. I have no doubt I will be asked what I mean by this and what I mean by that. My question is simply, why try so hard to prove me wrong if you are happy with your conscience? If you really believe that you have made a decision with a clear conscience, then this post should not bother you in the least.
You are free to interpret the passages of Scripture in a way other than what I have done - that activity has been going on for centuries! I doubt we shall clear it up on this thread.
I do not believe that it is "OK" for a Christian to get a tattoo. This, I know, does not line up with what some people believe. It is, however what I believe the Bible teaches.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 7/7/2008 1:20:46 PM >
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 1:32:04 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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What about the Sabbath? that was part of the Law but it was not carried over in the same way into the NT.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 4:17:19 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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A long time ago, in a land far far away, there lived a man name Jesus. He spoke of God's love and man's lack of understanding. Many people believed in His message and followed Him.
Now, there were certain religious sects in those days who thought they knew all there was to know about God. Jesus, did not have much patience with these groups. He called them hyporcrites and liars. In turn, they developed a real hatred for Jesus. They tried over and over to trick Him. They asked Him all kinds of questions about the law - but they did not really want an answer; they were only hoping to trick Jesus and point out errors.
So, Jesus did away with the law they were so fond of and that much harder law, having to do with the condition of their hearts, was still required of them because they did not believe.
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 4:25:44 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Nice quote.
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
A long time ago, in a land far far away, there lived a man name Jesus. He spoke of God's love and man's lack of understanding. Many people believed in His message and followed Him.
Now, there were certain religious sects in those days who thought they knew all there was to know about God. Jesus, did not have much patience with these groups. He called them hyporcrites and liars. In turn, they developed a real hatred for Jesus. They tried over and over to trick Him. They asked Him all kinds of questions about the law - but they did not really want an answer; they were only hoping to trick Jesus and point out errors.
So, Jesus did away with the law they were so fond of and that much harder law, having to do with the condition of their hearts, was still required of them because they did not believe.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 5:35:39 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
So, don't take my word for it - I am conservative in my interpretation.
Hey, me too! According to the test-thingy, anyhow.
I was a bit worried that it seemed to think understanding historical context wasn't conservative, but hey.
quote:
My question is simply, why try so hard to prove me wrong if you are happy with your conscience?
I have this bad habit of not liking any interpretation of Scripture that I feel is incorrect.
But if you wish to bow out of this conversation, that's perfectly fine.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 5:53:01 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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I guess that's undeniable, anyhow.
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
it is "tradition" to frown on tattoos.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 10:22:18 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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PHW:
I guess that piercing hurts less in the long run; as well as being fashion conscious, it's really also for good, practical reasons, right?
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I wear different kinds of earrings in my pierced ears and prefer the dangly kind. I've tried on a few of my mother's clip earrings but they hurt my ear lobes after a few minutes.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 10:44:38 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
I have this bad habit of not liking any interpretation of Scripture that I feel is incorrect.
But if you wish to bow out of this conversation, that's perfectly fine.
Well, ditto I am sure - and since we both feel strongly about it, if you wish to say I 'bowed' out I'll 'let' you.
On the other hand I have been reading some of the posts on the one stop law thread - with so many more individuals inputting, it seems far more interesting and less likely to get bogged down between 2 individuals - as has occurred here; well except for the cameo appearances of someone posting comments from another thread as though they were a part of this one. I find that a little weird............. 
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 10:47:37 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Norny:
So how long before you turn 18?
(If you put the Lord first in your life, you won't go far wrong.)
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Norny
when i turn 18 i would love a tattoo...
thank you for you time
--norny
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 10:51:38 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
I was a bit worried that it seemed to think understanding historical context wasn't conservative, but hey.
Just proves nothin's perfect.................I bet people cheat on that too - don't mean you - honesty is hard to come by. Well, adieu.
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/7/2008 10:58:29 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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solarflare:
I see, okay.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/18/2008 2:34:46 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Point taken...
quote:
ORIGINAL: Norny
Honestly if a girl is superficial enough to not like me because of my tatoo i wouldnt talk to her in the first place.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/19/2008 10:21:49 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Why do you believe tattoos are a moral issue but bushy beards and types of seeds, etc aren't?
Please read my post (page one at the bottom) I have covered it there.
OK, let me rephrase this: Why do you believe that the prohibition against "tattoos" is not part of the law to keep Israel separate from the pagan nations around them?
As I posted earlier there is really no prohibition against tattoos as we know them. The Hebrew word used in the original text was "qa aqa" This word actually means to cut. It's probabll origin was from a word meaning to clip off. The native americans had a ritual where they would cut off fingers when a son died. It is assumed, because it is not known for certain, this was a pagan ritual. It was done to get the gods to look favorably on the spirit of the departed. The context of scripture lends to the fact God was telling the Isrealites not to practice the pagan religious rituals.
Which tribes? "Native Americans" covers some 1500 different tribal groups, each with their own beliefs. Cherokees were monotheists, as were most of the other tribes here on Turtle Island(North America). I know of traditions of cutting the hair or making cuts upon oneself with a ceremonial blade in mourning, but have never heard of cutting off a finger to mourn the dead. Usually anytime an appendage was cut off, it was as punishment- like the old Apache practice of cutting off the nose of a woman who committed adultery. If you have more information or a source where I can check this out, I'd be interested in it.
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/19/2008 10:32:13 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
PHW:
I guess that piercing hurts less in the long run; as well as being fashion conscious, it's really also for good, practical reasons, right?
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I wear different kinds of earrings in my pierced ears and prefer the dangly kind. I've tried on a few of my mother's clip earrings but they hurt my ear lobes after a few minutes.
Mostly, this is the case. The exception would be when a baby or toddler grabs your dangly pierced earrings and gives them a yank, or when women get into a fight and go after each other's ears.
I do not wear my dangly earrings around infants and toddlers, and I haven't been in a fistfight with another female since I was sixteen, but I wasn't wearing any earrings at the time.
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RE: I need some opinions - 7/20/2008 2:59:48 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
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PaleHawkWoman:
Oh I see.
Anyway I guess the possibility of fights doesn't stop ladies getting piercings, anyway.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Mostly, this is the case. The exception would be when a baby or toddler grabs your dangly pierced earrings and gives them a yank, or when women get into a fight and go after each other's ears.
I do not wear my dangly earrings around infants and toddlers, and I haven't been in a fistfight with another female since I was sixteen, but I wasn't wearing any earrings at the time.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: I need some opinions - 8/17/2008 4:35:33 PM
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oceangirl
Posts: 36
Joined: 8/13/2008
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piercoings are not wrong
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RE: I need some opinions - 9/10/2008 12:11:35 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
Joined: 4/16/2008
Status: offline
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O:
I guess you have some, then, maybe.
Take care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: oceangirl
piercoings are not wrong
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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