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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 1:06:58 PM
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TheosCentric
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Did free will cause the thief on the cross to believe or the centurion to believe?
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God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 1:49:55 PM
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Reba
Posts: 658
Joined: 8/18/2008
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quote:
Like I just said, I wouldn't expect anyone who holds to the unbiblical false doctrines of limited Atonement and unconditional election to understand prevenient grace, either.
How did you get of BLOCK ?
So it is ok to post some one is not a christian as long as you phrase it carefully?
I have a real distrust of of some so called christian folks and some folks let me know why.
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Chapter and verse are posted so all may look up the context.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 2:39:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Nope, this is how God elects, but I would not expect any 5-point Calvinist to understand the difference between election and salvation!
We just understand one leads to the other....
quote:
Like I just said, I wouldn't expect anyone who holds to the unbiblical false doctrines of limited Atonement and unconditional election to understand prevenient grace, either.
You have a verse for "prevenient" grace?
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Well, I see my time spent here is becoming more and more worthless. I pray everyone will have a great day in the Lord - God bless you all!
What a paradox....
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 4:40:12 PM
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kelman
Posts: 5086
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Anybody else willing to distinguish Euty's two positions on the C/A spectrum as described in post #15773? Because quite frankly, I find the second one completely compatible with an Arminian understanding of prevenient grace.
Your idea of "prevenient" grace is that which God gives universally to all people, is it not? For starters, this idea would contradict Scripture which insists that men must hear the Gospel to be saved(Rom 10:14-17). Nor woud anyone be getting any "prevenient grace" if God did not elect them to salvation.
And what triggers effectual prevenient grace ?
It appears to lie dormant in many of the unsaved !
Yes, this is how I understand Arminian/Holiness prevenient grace also. Essentially, God puts man in a neutral position from which he then chooses which way he'd like to go...toward the Lord or toward whatever.
Do they believe in "effectual" prevenient grace? Instead, God does His part by making man "neutral" and man does the rest....although, perhaps they'd word it differently :)
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 4:41:24 PM
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kelman
Posts: 5086
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
quote:
ORIGINAL: kelman
Your idea of "prevenient" grace is that which God gives universally to all people, is it not?
And we know this is not The God of The Bible !
Otherwise, we must be plagued with uncertainty and confusion.
A potential, possible, man-activated, type of salvation ? Yes, essentially we must choose to become "born from above". How this is possible no one can really explain since the Lord is quick to compare our physical birth with that of our spiritual birth. We can no more spiritually "birth" ourselves than we can physically.
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What a twisted tyrannical version of God some erroneously portray !
God leads the horse to water, but won't let him drink.
That is what prevenient grace is...what good is it if unusable ?
That's a good point....why drink if we don't thirst?
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 11/22/2009 4:42:37 PM
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kelman
Posts: 5086
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Since it is how God saves, I doubt He would consider it "unhelpful". Nope, this is how God elects, but I would not expect any 5-point Calvinist to understand the difference between election and salvation! Oh, I appreciate the difference between the two. However, the fact remains there cannot be one without the other. If you are elect of God, it is guaranteed He will save you. If you are not elect of God, it is as equally guaranteed He will not save you.
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quote:
Your idea of "prevenient" grace is that which God gives universally to all people, is it not? For starters, this idea would contradict Scripture which insists that men must hear the Gospel to be saved(Rom 10:14-17). Nor woud anyone be getting any "prevenient grace" if God did not elect them to salvation Like I just said, I wouldn't expect anyone who holds to the unbiblical false doctrines of limited Atonement and unconditional election to understand prevenient grace, either. Since we're all relatively intelligent and set in "neutral" why then would we be unable to understand prevenient grace?
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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