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[Poll]
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Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong
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| TRUE - Christians have no business ever drinking alcohol |
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| FALSE - Cristians having an occasional glass of wine is not sinful |
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Total Votes : 120
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(last vote on : 10/5/2008 1:40:56 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/12/2008 8:42:04 PM
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MindySue69
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A person I know is terribly offended that I will buy a bottle of wine occasionally and drink a glass or two in the evening when I'm reading a book or watching TV.
I am not getting drunk, I never have more than the second glass (typical wine glass, not a tumbler!), and while sometimes I may drink a bottle of wine a week sometimes I go weeks and weeks without having any at all.
She says that it offends her and thus, I should not drink it (even if I'm not drinking it in front of her; the mere fact that she knows I drink it and doesn't approve should be enough for me to be rid of it.)
I disagree. I do not believe that scripture expressly forbids WINE but being DRUNKEN, and I also do not think the "offending your brother" verse applies to something you do in your own home when you are by yourself.
Or am I wrong? I'm curious for other input.
As an aside, this friend frequently and thoughtlessly takes the Lord's name in vain ("Oh my ____"). When having a conversation with her, I could hear her say it a dozen or more times without blinking an eye.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/12/2008 8:54:22 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11512
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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You're right.
And "causing offense" in the biblical sense has nothing to do with people getting upset at what you do. It's about causing people to sin by your actions - causing them to do something they think is a sin because you're doing it thinking it's not a sin.
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/12/2008 9:41:25 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 465
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MindySue69
A person I know is terribly offended that I will buy a bottle of wine occasionally and drink a glass or two in the evening when I'm reading a book or watching TV.
I am not getting drunk, I never have more than the second glass (typical wine glass, not a tumbler!), and while sometimes I may drink a bottle of wine a week sometimes I go weeks and weeks without having any at all.
She says that it offends her and thus, I should not drink it (even if I'm not drinking it in front of her; the mere fact that she knows I drink it and doesn't approve should be enough for me to be rid of it.)
I disagree. I do not believe that scripture expressly forbids WINE but being DRUNKEN, and I also do not think the "offending your brother" verse applies to something you do in your own home when you are by yourself.
Or am I wrong? I'm curious for other input.
As an aside, this friend frequently and thoughtlessly takes the Lord's name in vain ("Oh my ____"). When having a conversation with her, I could hear her say it a dozen or more times without blinking an eye.
This woman seems to have control issues. She is trying to put the convictions that God has given her on you. NO PLACE in scripture does it say drinking any kind of alcoholic drink is wrong. Drunkenness is what the Bible calls sin.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/12/2008 9:51:09 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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From: United States of America
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I would tell the old bag to hit the road, and take her unscriptural opinions with her. Of all the nerve. It is none of her business.
A little wine is good for the church gossip's take.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/12/2008 9:55:26 PM
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zmanfan38
Posts: 8506
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From: ...for it's root, root, root for the CUBBIES!!!
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Well, the voting is unanimous so far.
I do not drink because I had a problem with alcohol in my very late teens and early 20's, but I do not think drinking without becoming drunk is a sin.
I would have no problem if you drank in front of me (which you're not doing to her either). Don't see the problem, especially when she's so lax with God's name.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 2:48:27 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1919
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Tricia is right on. Pray for your friend. 
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 4:34:02 AM
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musicboss11
Posts: 560
Joined: 5/4/2005
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I don't drink anything (alochol), ever, for any reason. That's a personal choice I've made for me. I don't mind spending time around anyone who is drinking a little wine with dinner or something. If I have dinner with friends, and they have a little wine, I carry on as though it's nothing because in reality it is nothing. I have also been at parties where friends are drinking, and I enjoy myself and than help them get home safe after. If anyone asks about my not drinking, I just tell them that it's a personal choice I've made for my life. I'd tell your "friend" (I put it in quotes because she sounds more like a hall moniter than a friend) to take a long walk off a short peir. 
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 4:52:15 AM
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mvic
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I think that woman is RIGHT.
Drinking wine ... eugh !!!
However, beer, whisky, champagne, cider - that's OK. But WINE - how could you?
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 8:20:56 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3377
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From: my mom by God
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As I understand the arguement...
the high priest did not drink alcohol.....Jesus came as the High Priest...hence, to be Christ like, we should not drink alcohol.
I am not sure that is the correct interpretation...or implimentation...but I believe that is "their" arguement.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 8:37:56 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
As I understand the arguement...
the high priest did not drink alcohol.....Jesus came as the High Priest...hence, to be Christ like, we should not drink alcohol.
I am not sure that is the correct interpretation...or implimentation...but I believe that is "their" arguement.
I don't think it's the correct interpretation either. The high priest didn't drink only at a certain time. The rest of the time there was no restriction. A Nazarite could not drink (Samson was a life-long one) as long as he was under the vow, but Jesus was never a Nazarite.
I'm not sure there was any anti-alcohol sentiment within churches until the "Temperance" movement that eventually led to Prohibition in the early 20th century. Once the doctrine of abstinence was established, then a hunt for biblical support was begun, not the other way around.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:14:25 AM
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P31W
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I cannot answer the question. You have only two options avaliable. That would mean that we christians have decided that Romans 14-15 no longer applies to our life or the life of others.
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:22:25 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
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I just read your post. It appears that your friend is a good example of why I cannot vote for only the two options given. It appears that your friend would be in sin if she drank because it would be going against her conscious.
Rom 14:b But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
I do not drink not because I think it's a sin rather because of a covenant I willingly entered into. So for me to drink even a small amount for leisure would be for me to break the covenant/vow I have made. (the vow did not include the use of alcohol for medical purposes)
Nu 30:2
When a man makes a vow to the Lord or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:26:31 AM
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JimboFletch
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The friend has her sensibilities tweaked, but she is not offended in the biblical sense. For that to happen, the friend would have to be led to get drunk simply by seeing someone buy wine. If anything, she might be tempted to gossip about perceived sin in another but if she has that problem anything would set her off. Like her seeing you buy a box of chocolate.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:26:44 AM
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JamesL5
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quote:
original P31W
I cannot answer the question. You have only two options avaliable. That would mean that we christians have decided that Romans 14-15 no longer applies to our life or the life of others.
I agree. I feel like alcohol in general is a slippery slope. I met some people who have strong convictions against alcohol so I don't want to hinder them in any way. Of course, I met others who absolutely have no convictions against alcohol and drink whenever they feel like it. I don't want to take sides. I will abstain from voting unless you give us more options.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:37:01 AM
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Zhi
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I'm not sure how she could get that interpretation out of Scripture. Jesus turned water into wine as His first miracle, after all. If He were that concerned about other people not drinking, He wouldn't have done that, don't you think?
I grew up in a totally alcohol-hostile church. I still do not personally drink (I just have no interest in it whatsoever). My husband will occassionally buy a little wine or beer (and by "occassionally" I mean once every 3-6 months he might buy a bottle or two just to "try the taste", most of which usually eventually ends up in my cooking), but he has never been drunk in his life, so I don't really see anything wrong with that. It bothered me a little at first, but then I realized that what bothered me was my own upbringing, not any Scriptural premise.
I would say talk to her. See if you can't work out your issues, both on the wine thing (which is not a sin from a Scriptural perspective) and on the taking the Lord's name in vain thing (which frankly is). If she will not adjust her attitude on it, then I would say that from Romans, you need to try not to "distress" her with it so you're acting in love. This doesn't necessarily mean that you can't drink wine, but it does mean you should be more careful about her knowing about it I suppose.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:48:45 AM
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upNORTder
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I think that satan does not want people to drink. That way you can not participate in the Lord's supper.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 10:50:48 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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From: United States of America
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the problem here is not so much drinking wine in moderation, but someone chastizing another for doing so. That is what I take issue with, someone harrassing a full grown adult over this.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:15:17 AM
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P31W
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quote:
The friend has her sensibilities tweaked, but she is not offended in the biblical sense. For that to happen, the friend would have to be led to get drunk simply by seeing someone buy wine. If anything, she might be tempted to gossip about perceived sin in another but if she has that problem anything would set her off. Like her seeing you buy a box of chocolate.
I agree that her friend is a little off here but in "my opinion only" the best way to go forward is to simply abstain from drinking for a while. Win back the repect from the friend and then begin to help discipline her in scripture. Sometimes we just need to do stuff like that. It's about truly loving someone in my eyes. I am more concerned about the who who refuses to give up some liberty inorder to help another than I am the one who may be a little off and immature.
I know if this was my child we were talking about I would certainly not hesitate to give up something he felt I was doing wrong in my christian walk inorder to win back his respect and then help grow him into a more mature follower of christ.
When you offend someone it's always wise to try to win them back quickly.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:17:53 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
You're right.
And "causing offense" in the biblical sense has nothing to do with people getting upset at what you do. It's about causing people to sin by your actions - causing them to do something they think is a sin because you're doing it thinking it's not a sin.
Have I told you how much I appreciate rational responses?
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:20:08 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
As I understand the arguement...
the high priest did not drink alcohol.....Jesus came as the High Priest...hence, to be Christ like, we should not drink alcohol.
I am not sure that is the correct interpretation...or implimentation...but I believe that is "their" arguement.
That's an interesting argument. Haven't heard that one before. I'm not sure it's a correct interpretation either. There are a number of purity laws that Christ would have broken regularly, so I'm not sure it holds much water (or wine).
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:23:24 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2909
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
The friend has her sensibilities tweaked, but she is not offended in the biblical sense. For that to happen, the friend would have to be led to get drunk simply by seeing someone buy wine. If anything, she might be tempted to gossip about perceived sin in another but if she has that problem anything would set her off. Like her seeing you buy a box of chocolate.
I agree that her friend is a little off here but in "my opinion only" the best way to go forward is to simply abstain from drinking for a while. Win back the repect from the friend and then begin to help discipline her in scripture. Sometimes we just need to do stuff like that. It's about truly loving someone in my eyes. I am more concerned about the who who refuses to give up some liberty inorder to help another than I am the one who may be a little off and immature.
I know if this was my child we were talking about I would certainly not hesitate to give up something he felt I was doing wrong in my christian walk inorder to win back his respect and then help grow him into a more mature follower of christ.
When you offend someone it's always wise to try to win them back quickly.
Interesting option. Maybe that's a good way to go - I'm not sure. I do like that last sentence however. There's wisdom in those words.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:30:04 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
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For me it's about putting these passages into action --- even when dealing with a friend who is a little fickled.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
It's about keeping the main thing the main thing. The main thing is that what "we" do is pleaing to God. The second command is to love our neighbor as ourself. The passage above tells us how to do that. For "us" pleasing God may not be about drinking but about how we deal with another who has a problem with our drinking.
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 11:53:06 AM
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BarryLee
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The idea that it is acceptable to drink as long as one does not get drunk seems acceptable. However, I have also seen many friends who practice this principle get drunk. The problem is that alcohol lowers your self-control and your perception of your actual status. In other words you get drunk, but are completely convinced that you are not. I remember in Biology class we studied alcohol’s effect on the body and as few as three drinks could alter your normal behavior. I believe in most states the same amount could also put you over the limit for DUI / DWI.
Again, an occasional glass of wine with dinner or beer with the game is probably OK. But, be careful…
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RE: Christians Drinking Wine (Moderately) is Wrong - 8/13/2008 12:12:25 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7761
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From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
The friend has her sensibilities tweaked, but she is not offended in the biblical sense. For that to happen, the friend would have to be led to get drunk simply by seeing someone buy wine. If anything, she might be tempted to gossip about perceived sin in another but if she has that problem anything would set her off. Like her seeing you buy a box of chocolate.
I agree t | | |
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