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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 9:44:15 AM
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StephK
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How can anyone forget about Dan Rather and CBS fabricating a memo lying about Bush's TANG service that was run right before the 2004 election?
< Message edited by StephK -- 10/25/2009 9:53:58 AM >
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Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 9:55:22 AM
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Frontporch
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quote:
rlj - Distortion and lies are hardly native to only Fox Republican News.
I'm not going to disagree but it would be good to have some examples of other networks using such tactics. I'm not talking about "slant" but rather actual blatant misrepresentations (Bidden quote, Jennings Statutory rape, etc.) There is a difference between clipping the shot to show a smaller looking crowd and outright lies.
Does Beck's brand of success instigate a broader use of questionable means for ratings = bottom line? How much coverage of Brittney Spears meltdown was necessary? (Just thought I'd throw that in because she is a fourth rate singer...maybe fifth!)
_____________________________
In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 10:10:35 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
How can anyone forget about Dan Rather and CBS fabricating a memo lying about Bush's TANG service that was run right before the 2004 election?
Yeeeessss... whatever happened to Rather?
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 10:58:00 AM
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Frontporch
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quote:
StephenK - How can anyone forget about Dan Rather and CBS fabricating a memo lying about Bush's TANG service that was run right before the 2004 election?
Rather and CBS didn't fabricate they simply neglected to do a thorough check on the validity of the memo. To me that is equally as negligent and demonstrates suspect journalistic standards. It was also very obvious that Rather was extrmely biased against Bush even in 2000.
_____________________________
In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 11:58:01 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Frontporch
quote:
StephenK - How can anyone forget about Dan Rather and CBS fabricating a memo lying about Bush's TANG service that was run right before the 2004 election?
Rather and CBS didn't fabricate they simply neglected to do a thorough check on the validity of the memo. To me that is equally as negligent and demonstrates suspect journalistic standards. It was also very obvious that Rather was extrmely biased against Bush even in 2000.
...and people got fired.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 12:18:17 PM
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huangshan
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/archive/2009/10/20/what-s-your-beef-with-fox-mr-dem-basher.aspx
I guess there are two distinct axes on which you can judge press organizations--actually, there are many more than two (see below), but two are important here: 1) Neutrality--Are they attempting to be "objective," trying to serve the "public interest" in some balanced way, or are they ideologically (or otherwise) driven in a way that inevitably colors their coverage--what topics they pick, what 'experts' they rely on, etc. 2) Independence--Whether they are biased or generally neutral, can somebody--a political party, a Mafia family, a government-- tell them what to do?
I think it's pretty clear MSNBC and the NYT and Breitbart.tv are not neutral. They all have an agenda and they pursue it. But they are independent. The Obama White House can't tell Bill Keller what to do. They can't tell Keith Olbermann what to do. (They can suck up to him, and it will probably work, but that's a different issue.) Breitbart is for sure independent--I can't see anyone telling him what to do.
I think Fox is also not neutral (which, again, doesn't bother me) but it's also not independent (which does). This isn't because it's owned by Rupert Murdoch--moguls are, typically among the more independent sorts. It's because it's run by Roger Ailes. I have zero faith that Ailes is independent of the Republican party or, specifically, those Republicans who have occupied the White House recently--the Bushes. As I said, I think if Karl Rove called Ailes in 2003 and said "We don't want so much coverage of X" it's extremely likely that X would not be covered on Fox. A ... suggestive example of Fox's loyalty is the debate on immigration, in which Ailes' network initially seemed to try valiantly--against the beliefs of most of its audience--to push the Bush White House line in favor of "comprehensive" legalization (while brushing aside its viewers' views).
Kaus also notes that, in addition to immigration, Fox also (at least initially) stuck by the
Bush Administration during the Harriet Miers debacle.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 12:54:26 PM
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StephK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Frontporch
quote:
StephenK - How can anyone forget about Dan Rather and CBS fabricating a memo lying about Bush's TANG service that was run right before the 2004 election?
Rather and CBS didn't fabricate they simply neglected to do a thorough check on the validity of the memo. To me that is equally as negligent and demonstrates suspect journalistic standards. It was also very obvious that Rather was extrmely biased against Bush even in 2000.
My name isn't Stephen.
Yes they did fabricate the story. It is why Dan Rather was fired and why his lawsuit was thrown out. The point I'm making is that all of the media is biased some more than others.
This is NBC making up news for ratings too, not politically but it shows the lengths they go to frame a story the way they want it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zASL5xxqxD0
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 1:29:08 PM
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Frontporch
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quote:
StephK - Yes they did fabricate the story. It is why Dan Rather was fired and why his lawsuit was thrown out. The point I'm making is that all of the media is biased some more than others.
I apologize for the Stephen...my bias!!! It isn't worth the time to argue but I was under the distinct impression that the NG document was given to CBS/Rather not created (fabricated) by CBS.
Smallgovtimes - "I must admit that I am surprised with the recent admission by CBS news anchor and liberal media figure, Dan Rather, that the Bush National Guard story he passed off as genuine was as fake as a $3 bill. Equally as deceptive, and as phony, was Bill Burkett, who admitted that he deliberately deceived CBS ?"
This to me is more similar to Limbaugh and the fake Obama thesis, though Rush as an entertainer is held to a higher standard. Rush didn't alologize but instead basically stated it was true anyway because..blah, blah, blah
quote:
This is NBC making up news for ratings too, not politically but it shows the lengths they go to frame a story the way they want it.
Dramatic effect Yes, but had they wanted to totally deceive they would have shot when no people were walking by. They had pictures in Keene, NH papers years back after flooding of people canoeing on the streets although it was possible to walk - if meant to show excessive water they would have photoshopped out the people walking!.
At that same link (canoe) there were other links showing Chris Matthews going overboard on M. Huckabee, and that is bias. Unfortunately the editorial view expressed in news reporting seems too much a common practice. What I am saying though is that there is a difference between bias on the one hand and the blatant lies, fabrications, and such as evidenced by Fox. (and in the case of Rather)
_____________________________
In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 2:03:04 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Yes they did fabricate the story. It is why Dan Rather was fired and why his lawsuit was thrown out. The point I'm making is that all of the media is biased some more than others.
...except that, in Rather's case he was let go and the producer was fired. Are we to believe that this is the Fox treatment as well?
I think they'd go through anchors like toilet paper if that was the case.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 2:42:13 PM
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rockominal
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The difference is that Dan Rather had his image ironed and blasted on front of the biggest prime time news broadcast in the world. Liberals lost an icon in Dan Rather. It hurt them and it hurt them bad. Liberals have never recovered from the loss of Dan Rather. Twenty five liberal hacks combined don't equal one Dan Rather. He was their media mentor. Dan was the man. He has the resume to prove it. Dan RAther was out in the trenches. The only person who might use his style would be Christiane Amanpour. But most of these wannabes like Couric aren't even in the same ball park.
I'm glad this was finally brought up because ever since the John Kerry loss, liberals have been trying to hide their frustrations and pain under the rug. I couldn't believe what happened to Dan. He brought the true regency to the opening of prime time news that liberals will NEVER replace. That was like putting a knife right through the ribs of a lion, and liberals are still in denial to admit it. All they have now to quell their pain are a bunch of internet hacks and pranksters.
I still can't believe the loss of Dan Rather was over the likes of a lamer like John Kerry. That sacrifice wasn't even remotely close to justify the loss.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 3:12:05 PM
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Frontporch
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quote:
rockominal - I'm glad this was finally brought up because ever since the John Kerry loss, liberals have been trying to hide their frustrations and pain under the rug. I couldn't believe what happened to Dan.
How long have you been waiting to bring this up...5 years? Must be quite a letdown after all of this time..but you are correct all of my liberal friends still occasionally let the tears flow!
The OP is about Obama Admin. and Fox. The point of Rather was simply that he was fired, as Huangshan pointed out, while Fox is replete with lies, deceptions, and misinformation with no consequence. Further why should Fox be considered legitimate because it too goes beyond bias, as did Rather.
_____________________________
In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 3:36:05 PM
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StephK
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Please link to the lies that Fox has told. Specific lies, not bias or spin but out and out manufactured lies.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 3:46:45 PM
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Frontporch
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quote:
StephK - Please link to the lies that Fox has told. Specific lies, not bias or spin but out and out manufactured lies.
Already did in post #8
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In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 3:55:02 PM
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StephK
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I asked for specific lies of Fox news not spin or biased opinions from the left leaning blogs like Media Matters and Huffington Post. All of the 24/7 news channels air their opinion shows, not just Fox. Chris Matthews admitted to having tingles running up and down his legs after an Obama speech. The CEO of GE which owns NBC, Jeff Immelt, is an adviser of Obama's. You don't think there is a slight possibility of bias there?
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 4:05:25 PM
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Frontporch
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quote:
StephK - I asked for specific lies of Fox news not spin or biased opinions from the left leaning blogs like Media Matters and Huffington Post.
Unbelievable!!! They are VIDEOS...no spin - Videos!!! The VIDEOs speak for themselves no need to spin, no need for biased opinions...they are direct videos of Fox News!!!!!!!
_____________________________
In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't. Pascal
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 4:50:26 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
All of the 24/7 news channels air their opinion shows, not just Fox.
Many of the shows in that clip were not opinion shows. Which is part of the problem. Fox editorializes even its journalistic content.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 6:05:52 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
journalistic integrity?
LOL...since when has the media had this?
quote:
please detail the lies coming from Obama.
I am sure there is a thread somewhere on this topic.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 6:54:03 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Frontporch
quote:
StephK - I asked for specific lies of Fox news not spin or biased opinions from the left leaning blogs like Media Matters and Huffington Post.
Unbelievable!!! They are VIDEOS...no spin - Videos!!! The VIDEOs speak for themselves no need to spin, no need for biased opinions...they are direct videos of Fox News!!!!!!!
As so many of the lefty posters say, show the total unedited versions. I've posted many stories from blogs with the videos/audios and excerpts from writings yet have been told countless times context, context, context. Once again, there is a difference between a news commentary talk show, it is opinionated by default and reporting the news. Hannity, Beck, Olberman, Matthews, Cooper, King, etc. are commentators. They bloviate their OPINIONS.
The big issue that everyone should have is why in the heck is the POTUS trying to stifle the press? Stop being sycophants for once and look at the big picture.
"It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. It behooves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion . . . ." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1803.
"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 7:13:22 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Once again, there is a difference between a news commentary talk show, it is opinionated by default and reporting the news. Hannity, Beck, Olberman, Matthews, Cooper, King, etc. are commentators. They bloviate their OPINIONS.
Again, many of the comments in that video are not by the opinion gang.
quote:
The big issue that everyone should have is why in the heck is the POTUS trying to stifle the press? Stop being sycophants for once and look at the big picture.
The issue is that Fox is not the press. Therefore the POTUS is not trying to stifle the press.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 7:14:37 PM
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sue244
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First of all I don't believe that Obama has any right whatsoever to attack Fox, but if he is so worried about 1 network bringing him down that's his problem. Second I don't think that Fox news is any more biased then CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. But its seems where most people have their problem with Fox is not their news but their commentary shows. But Editorials have always been part of what the press has done. Every newspaper has an editorial section. And that is the most important part that is protected by the first amendment. No government is going to worry about someone just reporting the facts, who what when where why, and how. Its when they start making arguments, and sharing opinions that governments seems to get antsy which is why the Founding Fathers protected the rights of the Press. People should be allowed to say their opinions about the government without the government throwing a fit about it.
_____________________________
It is a remarkable fact that all the heresies which have arisen in the Christian Church have had a decided tendency to 'dishonor God and to flatter man. Spurgeon
Never let us be guilty of sacrificing any portion of truth on the altar of peace. Ryle
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 7:41:49 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
But its seems where most people have their problem with Fox is not their news but their commentary shows.
Their journalism is often as off-base and slanted as their editorial section.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 7:41:53 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
The issue is that Fox is not the press. Therefore the POTUS is not trying to stifle the press.
Actually Fox is part of the press, just because you and the president of the US don't like them does not make them less a part of the press. I can see where it is appealing to the anti freedom crowd to allow the government to decide who is deserving of the protections offered by the bill of rights but luckily for we the people our founding fathers predicted this and set in place a document meant to prevent it.
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 7:43:47 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
The issue is that Fox is not the press. Therefore the POTUS is not trying to stifle the press.
Actually Fox is part of the press, just because you and the president of the US don't like them does not make them less a part of the press. I can see where it is appealing to the anti freedom crowd to allow the government to decide who is deserving of the protections offered by the bill of rights but luckily for we the people our founding fathers predicted this and set in place a document meant to prevent it.
Is Fox a part of the press?
Is a barnacle a ship?
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 8:49:36 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshanIs Fox a part of the press?
yes, the government in the US does not get to decide who is and isn't a part of the press. Try to to think as a free individual
quote:
Is a barnacle a ship?
Care to explain your line of reasoning here?
< Message edited by _jjp_ -- 10/25/2009 8:55:42 PM >
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RE: Obama Admin and Fox news - 10/25/2009 9:13:56 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 1719
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshanIs Fox a part of the press?
yes, the government in the US does not get to decide who is and isn't a part of the press. Try to to think as a free individual
What is it that necessitates the Obama Administration to take Fox News any more seriously than Weekly World News?
quote:
quote:
Is a barnacle a ship? Care to explain your line of reasoning here?
Consider the relationship of a barnacle to a ship. And then think of how crazy it would be to confuse the two.
Calling something one thing does not make that thing that thing.
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