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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/16/2009 10:08:23 PM
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iluvatar
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This morning's local NPR show featured two retired JAG's, one on either side of the issue. Worth a listen: http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/11/911-trial-in-new-york
Brought up in this show was the fact that the Justice Dept has considerably more experience prosecuting terrorism cases than the military tribunals. Something like 150 convictions (maybe 190, I forget) for the feds vs just 3 for the military. It wasn't even until 2006 that the tribunal system was even set up properly (i.e. constitutionally).
What many of the opponents apparently fail to grasp (or don't care about altogether) is that a big part of this is how we are perceived abroad. Whether or not you want to admit it, we look like a bunch of hypocrites to a lot of people. While those perceptions might be exaggerations, they're not entirely unfounded. If we want peoples and nations to cooperate with us in fighting terrorists, we need them to trust us. Even I, as an American, would look at a military trial a bit sideways. I wouldn't care too much about this particular guy, but I wouldn't be terribly convinced that his fate wasn't sealed at the outset. Multiply that tenfold for an Arab watching this from Saudi Arabia.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/16/2009 10:50:21 PM
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Ross.Lang
Posts: 376
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quote:
NY doesn't have the death penalty.
Um, yeah, they do.
quote:
How does this guy manage to conjure up enough outlandish, presumptuous , pompous, ungirded, unbridled, disgusting, unmitigated gall to tell foreigners in Japan, China, or anywhere else, what the American people will or won't insist on
By being our elected leader. Maybe you should reflect on where you get the outlandish, presumptuous , pompous, ungirded, unbridled, disgusting, unmitigated gall to suggest that this isn't his right. While you're at it, read 1st Peter. 5 or 10 times.
-Ross
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/16/2009 10:53:21 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
What many of the opponents apparently fail to grasp (or don't care about altogether) is that a big part of this is how we are perceived abroad. Whether or not you want to admit it, we look like a bunch of hypocrites to a lot of people. While those perceptions might be exaggerations, they're not entirely unfounded.
-Dan.
It would appear that Barry Soetoro has already presumptuously apologized (to put it mildly), on behalf of America, for that several times. In fact, he's still at it . Perhaps you could take a road trip with the Kenyan socialist himself in order to assist him in that effort.
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I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/16/2009 11:10:08 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1518
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
I doubt that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would still be alive if he had committed his crimes back during the days of the founders.
It would seem the founders didn't support lynching.
You don't have to go back to the days of the founders. Had Khalid Sheikh Mohammed been taken on the battlefield in civilian garb in WWII he would have been shot by a firing squad in a few days.
International Law recognizes that combatants in civilian garb put all civilian's live in jeopardy. Thus, any combatant NOT in a recognizable military uniform is NOT protected as a prisoner of war.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/16/2009 11:12:41 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1518
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
This morning's local NPR show featured two retired JAG's, one on either side of the issue. Worth a listen: http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/11/911-trial-in-new-york
Brought up in this show was the fact that the Justice Dept has considerably more experience prosecuting terrorism cases than the military tribunals. Something like 150 convictions (maybe 190, I forget) for the feds vs just 3 for the military. It wasn't even until 2006 that the tribunal system was even set up properly (i.e. constitutionally).
What many of the opponents apparently fail to grasp (or don't care about altogether) is that a big part of this is how we are perceived abroad. Whether or not you want to admit it, we look like a bunch of hypocrites to a lot of people. While those perceptions might be exaggerations, they're not entirely unfounded. If we want peoples and nations to cooperate with us in fighting terrorists, we need them to trust us. Even I, as an American, would look at a military trial a bit sideways. I wouldn't care too much about this particular guy, but I wouldn't be terribly convinced that his fate wasn't sealed at the outset. Multiply that tenfold for an Arab watching this from Saudi Arabia.
-Dan.
Those same people, abroad, seem to forget that they, themselves, were FAR more harsh with non-uniformed combatants in WWII. The same laws under which they executed combatants caught in civilian clothes are still in force.
It is the OUTCOME of the trial that is really the opinion maker. And, that is DEFINITELY going to put us on a collision course with most of the world.
If they are found guilty, we will be said to have railroaded them.
If they are found NOT-Guilty, we will be said to have arrested the innocent.
Tell me where we win?
But, you and other radical libs had better hope that they are found guilty. For if they are not, there won't be a democrat in power for the next 20 years. While Obama might be under the delusion that 9/11 is behind us, he will find out just how many people remember if that anyone even remotely connected to 9/11 walks.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/16/2009 11:24:41 PM >
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 12:20:31 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2838
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Those same people, abroad, seem to forget that they, themselves, were FAR more harsh with non-uniformed combatants in WWII. The same laws under which they executed combatants caught in civilian clothes are still in force.
It is the OUTCOME of the trial that is really the opinion maker. And, that is DEFINITELY going to put us on a collision course with most of the world.
If they are found guilty, we will be said to have railroaded them.
If they are found NOT-Guilty, we will be said to have arrested the innocent.
Tell me where we win?
But, you and other radical libs had better hope that they are found guilty. For if they are not, there won't be a democrat in power for the next 20 years. While Obama might be under the delusion that 9/11 is behind us, he will find out just how many people remember if that anyone even remotely connected to 9/11 walks.
It may well be at this point that there is no way to completely "win" the international politics of this, only ways to minimize the losses we've already taken.
If they are found guilty in a civilian court with normal civilian rules of evidence, then the accusations that they were railroaded will be at least minimized vs. a closed military trial. If your plan is to go for the maximum penalty, you want to do that in the most transparent process possible. That won't be good enough for some, but it will go a long way with others.
BTW - I don't consider either Dan or myself to be radical libs. Dan seems pretty moderate and fairly independent. I'm slightly liberal on some issues, conservative on several. Definitely not very radical.
As Dan pointed out, the issue is one of legitimacy - whether real or perceived. It's difficult for the US to tell that world that we can judge others in military tribunals that our own supreme court has said don't meet the basic standards of the Geneva convention. It's even more difficult to then tell the rest of the world that despite having complained when our citicizens are tried in similar tribunals, that we are capable of judging their citicizens in such venues. The hypocrisy and inconsistency of it is fairly clear.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 11/17/2009 12:44:13 AM >
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 12:40:00 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2838
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross.Lang
quote:
NY doesn't have the death penalty.
Um, yeah, they do..
-Ross
Doesn't really matter since it's not the NY courts that will decide. It's in federal court, so the federal death statute applies.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 1:31:04 AM
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AmandaRadarRanger
Posts: 154
Joined: 11/10/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Those same people, abroad, seem to forget that they, themselves, were FAR more harsh with non-uniformed combatants in WWII. The same laws under which they executed combatants caught in civilian clothes are still in force.
Those same people? I think most of the people who had anything to do with WWII combatants are long dead or retired. I know the awful health care system in Europe has extended life expectancy past that of the US, but not by that much.
quote:
But, you and other radical libs had better hope that they are found guilty. For if they are not, there won't be a democrat in power for the next 20 years. While Obama might be under the delusion that 9/11 is behind us, he will find out just how many people remember if that anyone even remotely connected to 9/11 walks.
Radical libs? I haven't heard that for like since before I was born!! I think it goes back to the 60s at least. I don't think there's any chance of a not-guilty verdict in this case, though there may not be an execution.
< Message edited by AmandaRadarRanger -- 11/17/2009 1:37:33 AM >
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 4:41:22 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
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From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmandaRadarRanger
Those same people? I think most of the people who had anything to do with WWII combatants are long dead or retired. I know the awful health care system in Europe has extended life expectancy past that of the US, but not by that much.
All you've managed to say is that those same people don't even know their own history or are in denial of their own history.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmandaRadarRanger
Radical libs? I haven't heard that for like since before I was born!! I think it goes back to the 60s at least. I don't think there's any chance of a not-guilty verdict in this case, though there may not be an execution.
How about flaming libs? Ever heard that before?
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I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 4:48:41 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
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From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
BTW - I don't consider either Dan or myself to be radical libs. Dan seems pretty moderate and fairly independent. I'm slightly liberal on some issues, conservative on several. Definitely not very radical.
Well, I guess that's a comforting thought. I suppose that was pretty good strategy in voting for a radical anti-American imported flaming socialist to be President of the United States, when you find yourselves in a quandary concerning your own quasi-liberalism.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 4:53:40 AM
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rockominal
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This is a very good excerpt from TheAmericancause.org
quote:
Some now argue that the Nazi saboteurs should have been tried in civilian court. But suppose instead of six, it had been 600 Nazis. Suppose Tojo had put ashore 1,000 "kamikaze tourists" in 1941 with orders to run amok, bombing and killing, to create panic in America as soon as Japan attacked. Would each and every Nazi and Japanese saboteur have been entitled to his own separate civilian trial?
Have those demanding civilian trials for foreign terrorists thought through the logic of their position? They are saying it is permissible to drop a 15,000 pound daisy-cutter bomb on Osama bin Laden and his extended family in Kandahar, but if he makes it to U.S. soil and blows up the Sears Tower, the families of his victims must pay for his defense and his trial can be carried on Court TV.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 7:55:01 AM
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SonInMe1
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How would we be embarrassing ourselves to prosecute this terrorist in a military tribunal?
The guy admitted his terrorism. There are laws governing the consequences for terrorists. Why, in any sence would we be embarrassed to prosecute this guy?
Are we to be apologetic for terrorism against us?
I really don't get this. We are not an evil nation nor do we practice it. We have done nothing to apologise for....and who the heck are the europeans anyways? Who needs them? Why do we need to cowtow to what they think anyways??
Its amazing the hatred the left has for our country.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 9:50:27 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3104
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I really don't get this. We are not an evil nation nor do we practice it. We have done nothing to apologise for....
Seriously? We haven't toppled governments because we didn't like them? (we toppled the gov't in Iran because Britain was worried about losing money once Iran nationalized their oil industry). We haven't installed/propped up corrupt foreign leaders? (Karzai, Musharrif) We haven't started wars on bad intelligence? (Iraq) We haven't botched the execution of a war and plunged a country into chaos? We haven't tortured prisoners and tried to wiggle around the definition of "torture"?
Maybe we don't have as much to apologize for as some other countries, but denying our faults while holding others to higher standards is stupid and hypocritical.
quote:
and who the heck are the europeans anyways? Who needs them?
LOL, Seriously?
We do. Do you want to fight these wars w/o any of our European allies? How do you propose handling Iran, N Korea, & the Sudan w/o cooperation from China & Russia? How do you propose rooting out terrorists w/o not just Arab governments, but also the Arab peoples?
quote:
Why do we need to cowtow to what they think anyways??
Because we need them.
Guess what, it's not 1990 anymore. We're still the big kid on the block, but lots of the other kids have grown up, too. Military might is becoming less important, while economic power is becoming more important. Now that China, India, and the EU are becoming dominant, independent economic powers, we can't just push everybody around the way we used to. These days we need to C-O-O-P-E-R-A-T-E if we need their help.
I encourage everybody to go out and read Fareed Zakaria's "A Post-American World." It ought to enlighten some of the discussions that go on around here.
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 11/17/2009 9:59:54 AM >
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 9:57:34 AM
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AmandaRadarRanger
Posts: 154
Joined: 11/10/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmandaRadarRanger
Those same people? I think most of the people who had anything to do with WWII combatants are long dead or retired. I know the awful health care system in Europe has extended life expectancy past that of the US, but not by that much.
All you've managed to say is that those same people don't even know their own history or are in denial of their own history.
No, what I've said is it's not the same people. Yes, I was parsing and being nitpicky.
quote:
How about flaming libs? Ever heard that before?
Yeah that's some rock band isn't it?
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 1:47:11 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
We haven't tortured prisoners and tried to wiggle around the definition of "torture"?
-Dan.
Actually, "we" haven't.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 1:59:12 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I encourage everybody to go out and read Fareed Zakaria's "A Post-American World." It ought to enlighten some of the discussions that go on around here.
-Dan.
Enlighten, as in new age enlightenment or something? I don't get it. You mean your book ought to enlighten me on this topic?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 6:43:35 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
Enlighten, as in new age enlightenment or something? I don't get it. You mean your book ought to enlighten me on this topic?
Main Entry: en·light·en
Pronunciation: \in-ˈlī-tən, en-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): en·light·ened; en·light·en·ing \-ˈlīt-niŋ, -tən-iŋ\
2 a : to furnish knowledge to
Yes, it ought to enlighten you on this topic - make you more informed.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/17/2009 10:03:40 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2838
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Feel free to enlighten me briefly on the book. Curious why you recommend it.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 1:14:48 AM
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pfs
Posts: 23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
There are no good answers, really.
Whose fault is it that? If they didn't want to sit and rot in prison while we deal with the war they started then perhaps they shouldn't have used our civilians as their weapons of war.
That last question is actually very easy to answer. It is the fault of the moral degenerates of the last administration who decided that it was more important to act real tough than to uphold our country's values as they are enshrined in the Constitution.
< Message edited by pfs -- 11/18/2009 1:23:47 AM >
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 3:43:03 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1828
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
Seriously? We haven't toppled governments because we didn't like them? (we toppled the gov't in Iran because Britain was worried about losing money once Iran nationalized their oil industry). We haven't installed/propped up corrupt foreign leaders? (Karzai, Musharrif) We haven't started wars on bad intelligence? (Iraq) We haven't botched the execution of a war and plunged a country into chaos? We haven't tortured prisoners and tried to wiggle around the definition of "torture"?
Pure delusion.
quote:
Do you want to fight these wars w/o any of our European allies?
Yes.
quote:
How do you propose handling Iran, N Korea, & the Sudan w/o cooperation from China & Russia?
Last time I looked on the map neither were in europe.
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Because we need them.
For what? To control our nation? To make policy for us? If we need them then we are in a seriously bad position.
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We're still the big kid on the block, but lots of the other kids have grown up, too.
No we have come back. We are afriad to be the nation we once were. Apologetic to terrorists. Bowing to foreign leaders. Filled with USA hating politicians and supporters of those policies which undermine the greatness of our nation.
quote:
Military might is becoming less important, while economic power is becoming more important.
You cannot have one without the other. Our president and his insane policies are undermining our weak economy.
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Now that China, India, and the EU are becoming dominant
Yeah, real dominant...without us they would have nothing.
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These days we need to C-O-O-P-E-R-A-T-E if we need their help.
We need to compete not lay down and worship socialism.
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It is the fault of the moral degenerates of the last administration who decided that it was more important to act real tough than to uphold our country's values as they are enshrined in the Constitution.
Yeah, we should have left Saddam in power...the Taliban in Afghanistan...let free all those nice guiys at Gitmo....curb every attempt to stop terrorism on our shores.
...and he moral degenerates certainly don't inhabit this administration...eh?
Its sickening how the media has influenced so many people to believe all this stuff. Its coming to the point that even liberals are turning their backs on this radical administration and its policies.
If this insanity does not stop, our country may not be able to recover from it. The decline IS here...and you voted for it. Your hatred for this country is destroying it....and the world is gonna suffer for it. Is suffering for it.
Good job.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 5:57:11 AM
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rockominal
Posts: 679
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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Well I looked up this closet hindu Zakaria and sure enough it was just as I expected. More sickening new age "enlightenment". It's really been going on for quite sometime, most notably in those experimental microcosms, mainly in Oregon. The precepts have been amalgamated into the curriculum of public schools. Caryl Matrisciana is an expert on the subject and has a provacative exposé of how it has transmigrated throughout the west. I've read overviews of her book and rented a couple of videos, and it is not for the faint of heart. So you can tell Zakaria Faheed he can take his "book" and throw it in the dungheap with the rest of Oprah Winfrey's pornography.
This was so easily predictable. So, while you are in the process of trying to
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Main Entry: en·light·en
Pronunciation: \in-ˈlī-tən, en-\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): en·light·ened; en·light·en·ing \-ˈlīt-niŋ, -tən-iŋ\
2 a : to furnish knowledge to
me, I think it would be apropos that I do you a favor and
quote:
RoCkbot: 
Ed•u•cate KEY
VERB:
ed·u·cat·ed, ed·u·cat·ing, ed·u·cates ¶
VERB:
tr.
1.) To develop the innate capacities of, especially by schooling or instruction. See synonyms at teach Œ
2.) To provide with knowledge or training in a particular area or for a particular purpose: decided to educate herself in foreign languages; entered a seminary to be educated for the priesthood. ²
3.)- To bring to an understanding or acceptance..³
- To stimulate or develop the mental or moral growth of.
- To develop or refine (one's taste or appreciation, for example).
VERB: €
intr.
To teach or instruct a person or group.
...you.
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 7:46:48 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Feel free to enlighten me briefly on the book. Curious why you recommend it.
Basically, it covers the last paragraph of my Post #88 - how power and control that was once concentrated in the US is being diluted by the growing economic strength of other nations, particularly India, China, and the EU. Zakaria refers to it as the "Rise of the Rest" (contrasted with the "Rise of the West"). It may not be anything new to you, but many folks around here like to argue about foreign relations as if it were still 1990.
quote:
Well I looked up this closet hindu Zakaria and sure enough it was just as I expected. More sickening new age "enlightenment". It's really been going on for quite sometime, most notably in those experimental microcosms, mainly in Oregon. The precepts have been amalgamated into the curriculum of public schools. Caryl Matrisciana is an expert on the subject and has a provacative exposé of how it has transmigrated throughout the west. I've read overviews of her book and rented a couple of videos, and it is not for the faint of heart. So you can tell Zakaria Faheed he can take his "book" and throw it in the dungheap with the rest of Oprah Winfrey's pornography.
What on earth are you talking about? He's the editor of Newsweek International and hosts a weekly show on CNN. His parents were Muslim, not Hindu. http://www.fareedzakaria.com/about.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Seriously? We haven't toppled governments because we didn't like them? (we toppled the gov't in Iran because Britain was worried about losing money once Iran nationalized their oil industry). We haven't installed/propped up corrupt foreign leaders? (Karzai, Musharrif) We haven't started wars on bad intelligence? (Iraq) We haven't botched the execution of a war and plunged a country into chaos? We haven't tortured prisoners and tried to wiggle around the definition of "torture"?
Pure delusion.
 What delusions? Was Operation Ajax not conducted at the request of the British, prompted by the nationalizing of Iran's oil industry? Have we not supported & propped up Karzai & Musharraf, despite their corruptions? Was the Iraq War not started largely on bad intelligence about WMD? Was the execution of the Iraq War not horribly bungled? Have we not tried to redefine "torture"?
quote:
quote:
Now that China, India, and the EU are becoming dominant
Yeah, real dominant...without us they would have nothing.
Without trading partners, we wouldn't have much either. Then there's the issue of China holding much our debt - we need them, too.
quote:
Yeah, we should have left Saddam in power...the Taliban in Afghanistan...let free all those nice guiys at Gitmo....curb every attempt to stop terrorism on our shores.
Saddam had nothing to do with "terrorism on our shores." We had every right to go into Afghanistan, but we did a lousy job with that, too.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 10:34:23 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1122
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
As Dan pointed out, the issue is one of legitimacy - whether real or perceived. It's difficult for the US to tell that world that we can judge others in military tribunals that our own supreme court has said don't meet the basic standards of the Geneva convention. It's even more difficult to then tell the rest of the world that despite having complained when our citicizens are tried in similar tribunals, that we are capable of judging their citicizens in such venues. The hypocrisy and inconsistency of it is fairly clear.
Exactly.
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 10:36:02 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pfs
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
There are no good answers, really.
Whose fault is it that? If they didn't want to sit and rot in prison while we deal with the war they started then perhaps they shouldn't have used our civilians as their weapons of war.
That last question is actually very easy to answer. It is the fault of the moral degenerates of the last administration who decided that it was more important to act real tough than to uphold our country's values as they are enshrined in the Constitution.
I don't think so. We didn't go to war until after the evil degenerates used our civilians as their weapons of war. The current prez said that KSM would receive a full military trial during the campaign. He lied again. In case you don't know, the first WTC bombing trial under the Clinton administration was how Bin Laden found out we were keeping tabs on him. KSM is the uncle of the first WTC bomber by the way. He also funded the first attack.
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Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Obama says will insist on justice for 9/11 suspect - 11/18/2009 11:08:16 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2838
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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In the WTC case, the government failed to use precautions provided for by the Classified Information Procedures Act.
That's a failure one would presume that people are aware of since the government has been soundly criticized for that failure.
It's not quite the risk that people make it out to be.
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“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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