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Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/15/2009 11:48:55 PM
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childreninvolved
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Communication is impossible for my Husband to have with me. It's been 12 years, and he has yet to have a conversation with me that is on any kind of adult level. He will not talk most of the time. Even to our three small children. We went to counciling, and he literally could not give an answer to any question. The silence was deafening. Finally, after many visits, I was told to lower my expectations, and I would not be dissapointed anymore. I don't know how much more hurt I can handle. This is so not healthy, for my children and me. Does God want me to continue on letting him treat us this way?
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/16/2009 12:07:49 AM
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deermousie
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Welcome to the forum, Childreninvolved.
I'm sorry you're in an uncomfortable situation. If your husband refuses to talk, then there's not much you can do about it and must depend on God to change him (which He might not do).
So here you are: what does God call you to do?
1) Don't get bitter. Yeah, your life is uncomfortable but so are many people's. Respond to God's grace and rejoice in your salvation.
2) Be good to your kids. Their dad might not be talking to them, but they have you. Love them, teach them, do what you can.
quote:
Does God want me to continue on letting him treat us this way?
Well, you can't hit him with a baseball bat, you can't kick him out, you can't change him. Work with what you've got. Ask God to help, change and use you for His representative to your children and your friends, and yes, to your husband. The secret to the Christian life is rejoicing, and you have plenty to rejoice about that has nothing to do with your husband.
I am truly sorry about your marriage. Many marriages aren't very good. Be a good soldier and do what you can. Your kids, I'm guessing, don't have much of a father, but they still have you. Be the best mom you can, and may God bless it!
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/16/2009 1:47:08 AM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 2126
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Was he always like this ie when you were going out?
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/16/2009 9:23:55 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 4045
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quote:
Well, you can't hit him with a baseball bat, you can't kick him out, you can't change him. Work with what you've got. Ask God to help, change and use you for His representative to your children and your friends, and yes, to your husband. The secret to the Christian life is rejoicing, and you have plenty to rejoice about that has nothing to do with your husband.
I am truly sorry about your marriage. Many marriages aren't very good. Be a good soldier and do what you can. Your kids, I'm guessing, don't have much of a father, but they still have you. Be the best mom you can, and may God bless it!
Amen! Very well said deermousie.
I am curious, if he was literally silent with the counselor, it's not just you. And he doesn't talk to the children much. Is he talkative anywhere else? If this is an across-the-board thing, I would stop viewing it as him giving you "the silent treatment" or being a Bad Man. Does he communicate in other ways? Or express affection in other ways than conversation?
_____________________________
 Moo
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/17/2009 8:29:11 AM
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Redjasper
Posts: 407
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Silent treatment is a form of manipulation. Your husband has issues. Would seeing a counselor by himself be an option? He may have things inside him that he could talk about with an outsider professional more effectively than at marriage counseling.
Just one more thing to mention. The advice "lower your expectation and it won't hurt any more" is ridiculous. I would find another counselor.
< Message edited by Redjasper -- 11/17/2009 8:36:42 AM >
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/17/2009 9:35:23 AM
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jhuperetes
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How did you come up with your analysis from 602 characters, Redjasper?
I would like to hear a bit more details to the questions herestoresmysoul, & 3cappuccinosmom posed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Redjasper
Silent treatment is a form of manipulation. Your husband has issues. Would seeing a counselor by himself be an option? He may have things inside him that he could talk about with an outsider professional more effectively than at marriage counseling.
Just one more thing to mention. The advice "lower your expectation and it won't hurt any more" is ridiculous. I would find another counselor.
< Message edited by jhuperetes -- 11/17/2009 9:41:42 AM >
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/17/2009 10:33:39 AM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 2126
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Redjasper
Silent treatment is a form of manipulation. Your husband has issues. Would seeing a counselor by himself be an option? He may have things inside him that he could talk about with an outsider professional more effectively than at marriage counseling.
Just one more thing to mention. The advice "lower your expectation and it won't hurt any more" is ridiculous. I would find another counselor.
Sllent treatment can be a form of manipulation if the person is normally a person who talks and converses. If he doesn't then it is quite possible that he is just a very quiet person who is like this with everyone. If the counsellor told you to accept things the way they are, it is quite possible that they realised this as well.
If this is the case then he must have always been quiet even before marriage.Then you married him as he was and he hasnt changed but just your expectations have.
If he was completely different then and suddenly changed then there is more to it. Some people are just very quiet and say little.You cannot change a persons whole character, so maybe spend time with family and female friends to get the conversation and interaction that you want, and accept him as he is.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/18/2009 4:13:42 PM
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Redjasper
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quote:
How did you come up with your analysis from 602 characters, Redjasper?
From my experience, which may be different from others'. I don't think it's healthy not to talk in marriage, even quiet and private people talk to their spouses. I'm a quiet person and spend a lot of time alone, and when something bothers me I I pull away and you hear no words coming out of my mouth. The positive side is that I tell my husband that something is bothering me and just feel like being alone in another room and cry to release the tension.
I was told at online classes that I sound harsh in writing as English is my second language. I'm trying my best to find nuances and I don't always succeed. If you found that I sound judgmental or rude here, that's no way my intention. It upsets me that so many of us are hurting really badly. I just feel so much for people with issues who are trying to deal with them on the inside. Like myself, I definitely have issues. (is this the right word at all?) No matter how good my marriage is, I need to go to therapy very soon, myself, because I'm a problem. It's possible that if something bothers this man and he doesn't know how to express it.
It's quite possible that nothing is going on simply a very shy person, but the poster wouldn't be posting here if she felt that everything is all right with it. It must have been different before marriage or at the beginning otherwise why marry and not sure if this man is 'just' very reserved or there are other things going on for him. So that's why I got to the conclusion that something must have changed, not simply he was always like that. Otherwise why asking for advice.
Hope my explanation makes sense, but can be discarded if it's not relevant to this situation.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/18/2009 4:15:37 PM
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Redjasper
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Oh, something else....
Is he silent or giving "silent treatment"? The latter has negative connotations as far as my linguistics go, and the poster used this latter expression as a title for her message.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/18/2009 4:27:41 PM
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jhuperetes
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It is also possible, that he is doing the "silent treatment".
We just don't know yet from the original post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Redjasper
quote:
How did you come up with your analysis from 602 characters, Redjasper?
From my experience, which may be different from others'. I don't think it's healthy not to talk in marriage, even quiet and private people talk to their spouses. I'm a quiet person and spend a lot of time alone, and when something bothers me I I pull away and you hear no words coming out of my mouth. The positive side is that I tell my husband that something is bothering me and just feel like being alone in another room and cry to release the tension.
quote:
I was told at online classes that I sound harsh in writing as English is my second language. I'm trying my best to find nuances and I don't always succeed. If you found that I sound judgmental or rude here, that's no way my intention. It upsets me that so many of us are hurting really badly. I just feel so much for people with issues who are trying to deal with them on the inside. Like myself, I definitely have issues. (is this the right word at all?) No matter how good my marriage is, I need to go to therapy very soon, myself, because I'm a problem. It's possible that if something bothers this man and he doesn't know how to express it.
English isn't my first or second language either. 
quote:
It's quite possible that nothing is going on simply a very shy person, but the poster wouldn't be posting here if she felt that everything is all right with it. It must have been different before marriage or at the beginning otherwise why marry and not sure if this man is 'just' very reserved or there are other things going on for him. So that's why I got to the conclusion that something must have changed, not simply he was always like that. Otherwise why asking for advice.
Hope my explanation makes sense, but can be discarded if it's not relevant to this situation.
< Message edited by jhuperetes -- 11/18/2009 4:34:14 PM >
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/19/2009 4:39:20 PM
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herestoresmysoul
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
So that's why I got to the conclusion that something must have changed, not simply he was always like that. Otherwise why asking for advice.
Actually, lots of people do that, when they realize something they admired from afar during courtship is a quality that gets under their skin after a few years of marriage.
"Oh, he's the strong and silent type <swoon>" becomes "He never talks to me, the jerk!"
I'm not saying this is the situation in the OP, just that it's not an uncommon occurance.
yes that is so true and they spend the next 30 years trying to change them.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/19/2009 5:26:13 PM
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Redjasper
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quote:
they realize something they admired from afar during courtship is a quality that gets under their skin after a few years of marriage
quote:
yes that is so true and they spend the next 30 years trying to change them
Why?
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/19/2009 9:30:59 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 2126
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Redjasper
quote:
they realize something they admired from afar during courtship is a quality that gets under their skin after a few years of marriage
quote:
yes that is so true and they spend the next 30 years trying to change them
Why?
because as 3 capps said the man they married becomes less than satisfying for them. My husbands ex spent 23 years trying to make him be someone that he wasnt. If she didnt like the man he was then why did she marry him????I will never understand that.
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/20/2009 2:58:57 PM
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laura...
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From: NE Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: childreninvolved
Communication is impossible for my Husband to have with me. It's been 12 years, and he has yet to have a conversation with me that is on any kind of adult level. He will not talk most of the time. Even to our three small children. We went to counciling, and he literally could not give an answer to any question. The silence was deafening. Finally, after many visits, I was told to lower my expectations, and I would not be dissapointed anymore. I don't know how much more hurt I can handle. This is so not healthy, for my children and me. Does God want me to continue on letting him treat us this way?
Is your husband really treating you badly or are you expecting him to do something that he is not capable of doing?
Is he giving you the silent treatment, ignoring you and the children, or, does he just not ever have anything to say?
Some people just don't talk much. It's their personality. This is not necessarily unhealthy. It may just mean that he has other ways of communicating besides conversation.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/20/2009 3:58:00 PM
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hnt
Posts: 665
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Communication is important in a marriage.
If something is taking a royal toll on your marriage, and seems to be hurting your wife and children? Why would you be there to just sit there and not answer any questions in a counseling session when you are there to work things out? I guess I'm odd, because I could understand the frustration. You need cooperation in order to even HAVE a relationship! I'm not saying expect the MOON, but attempting to talk would be nice! To sit there and not answer any questions asked of you is childish at the very least.
My brother is very shy, quiet etc. He was dangerously shy as a child, and even when the waitress came to the table to ask what he would want on the menu? He practically would go right under the table to hide. My parents decided they had to nip this in the bud, and when he got older Dad got him a job in a men's clothing section (suits). He had to take measurements for the suits, and was forced to interact with the clients. A bit later in high school my parents decided a speech class was needed to make sure he got over his fear - he would be going to college that next year. I'm SURE my brother hated every minute, and it felt like torture to him.
He is still shy and quiet today. He did need to take steps in order to learn to communicate. I doubt very much he would have been as successful as he is today if he didn't.
If her husband is attempting to take steps to help the communication? That is one thing. If he refuses to even try? That's an entirely different thing.
Being quiet, shy, etc doesn't mean you can't communicate and hold a conversation. You are talking apples and oranges here. Having little to say about things is very different, but that doesn't mean they don't communicate.
I don't know to what extreme she or her spouse are in this circumstance. If a person doesn't hold an adult conversation, and doesn't even interact with his own children? Telling me I should just lower my expectations and I won't get disappointed? Just how do you do that? How does your relationship grow with no communication? It seems it would be better I guess to just pretend they aren't in the room? That way when they don't interact back to you when you ask questions you aren't disappointed?
My brother is married now, and even he knows he needs to talk sometime!  Its not easy for some, but that certainly doesn't make it impossible. If they refuse to talk or hold a conversation? I suppose just live life as if they aren't there. I'm not talking in a cruel way. I figure if something is important to them they will speak up. Otherwise I would just assume its not, because there is no other way to know. I would hope that would nudge them a bit to maybe attempt to participate in life with those that love them.
I mean what else can you do? I certainly wouldn't like talking to a wall.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/20/2009 4:05:25 PM
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laura...
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From: NE Ohio
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quote:
If her husband is attempting to take steps to help the communication? That is one thing. If he refuses to even try? That's an entirely different thing.
I would assume that his willingness to go to multiple marriage counseling sessions would indicate that he was attempting to take steps to help their communication. His inability to answer questions in those sessions would indicate that he just can't do it. Therefore, the counselor's advice to lower her expectations is probably sound advice.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/20/2009 7:03:16 PM
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hnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
If her husband is attempting to take steps to help the communication? That is one thing. If he refuses to even try? That's an entirely different thing.
I would assume that his willingness to go to multiple marriage counseling sessions would indicate that he was attempting to take steps to help their communication. His inability to answer questions in those sessions would indicate that he just can't do it. Therefore, the counselor's advice to lower her expectations is probably sound advice.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Personally, sounds like they need a new counselor. If he doesn't have the answers - give him until next session to think on it. That to me is reasonable. If you practice you learn the ability to communicate. Like I said before - if he isn't communicating with his family what does lower her expectations look like?
I can only think of maybe doing life without talking or communicating with your spouse. You acknowledge them when they want to get involved of course, and your basically enabling his disability to not show communication when you wait on them to react. It rots in a way, because you should be doing life together. Its sad because children grow up fast. He will be watching live go by, and before he knows it they will gone. Like I mentioned before the silent type can have conversations..lol it is possible for them! You can't find closest with your spouse if you can't speak or answer questions. I hope she finds someone at church to talk with instead.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/20/2009 7:05:51 PM
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hnt
Posts: 665
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Communication is important in a marriage.
That is true, but not all communication is verbal.
It took me a while to learn to see it, but my husband was communicating a great deal with me, using very few words. I was so bent on getting him to chatter like me that I couldn't hear anything that he *was* saying. 
I agree that all communication isn't verbal.
I would have hoped the counselor could have pointed out those signals if they were there. At times we are to close to see them, until they are pointed out. If nonverbal signals were there, and the counselor didn't see them? LOL another reason for a new counselor!
I have a feeling the poster is gone anyway. I will be praying for her family.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/21/2009 10:45:35 AM
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childreninvolved
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His father was abused by by my Mother-in-law. Verbal abuse and actual physical abuse. He wouldn't ever talk to her "ever". He stayed at his sisters house most of the time and drank. He passed away after he decided to divorce her. When our twins were born (9 years ago), I was changing their diapers in their room, and I was frozen in place when I heard her in our kitchen with my husband. She will only speak in Japenese when she knows I can hear. She was yelling at him, and of course he would say nothing back to her. The only answers he ever gives her are yes or no, or you don't need to know that. I heard him saying "stop, Stop, STOP", over and over. My heart fell into my stomach, and I couldn't move. After she left, I went into our kitchen and his back was covered in blood, and there was a puddle of blood on the floor. He had scratches so deep that you could see the white under his skin. I just held him and cried. He told me that she did that to him before we were married, because she didn't want him to marry me, and also after we were married. I was so looking forward to having a Mother-in-law that had no daughters, so I could show her the blessing of having a daughter's love. Koji (my husband), later told her that if she ever did that again, that "Mary, will call the police". I am Mary. Before we married, he promised me that he would talk to me, and not treat me like his mother treated his father. He told me that if we had children, he would never behave that way. In counsiling, he truly did not answer the counsilor. It was the most ackward situiation. If I tried to help him answer, the counsilor would put his hand up for me to be quiet so he would have time to answer, and all Koji would say to him, after maybe 4 minutes is "I don't have an answer". That is his famous sentence when he is asked a question. However he will not say that until I am frusterated from asking a question and not getting a response for such a long period of time. He refuses to answer the phone. He has never answered it before. If it is for him, and it is a friend from his work, he dosen't shut up. All he does is talk, and laugh. The other day, I told him that I needed to talk, (many times). Finally when he went outside to smoke, I went so he would have to listen to me. I told him that I wasn't happy. I told him that I was tired of living on the phone in order to have an adult to talk to. I told him that I was lonely, and hurt that he does not talk to me. I told him that I was considering moving to my sisters house in Las Vegas because neither of us are happy. I asked him how he felt, and his answer was "There's nothing to talk about". I kept asking him to talk to me, and he would only say, "There's nothing to talk about". Finally he said "You're going to do, what your're going to do". I saw no emotion. I don't know what else to say to you're responses to me. I have never been on a chat line before. It is unbelievable to me that people actually listen. I don't even know what to say to all of you, other than, thank-you. Love from the bottom of my heart to you all, Mary
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/21/2009 11:09:19 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 4045
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{{{Mary}}}
That's a lot to deal with.
So he can talk and relate. But it sounds like his perception of close family relationships has been seriously damaged, and no wonder. To have come out of a family like that without being broken would have been a miracle. 
I did notice something in your post. When you related to him like this:
quote:
After she left, I went into our kitchen and his back was covered in blood, and there was a puddle of blood on the floor. He had scratches so deep that you could see the white under his skin. I just held him and cried. He told me that she did that to him before we were married, because she didn't want him to marry me, and also after we were married.
...he talked. It sounds like you did exactly the opposite of his abusive mother, and that was the opening into his heart. However brief and self-centered it was, he did open up to you in that moment.
If you have already practiced this, then it's time to move onto the next step in trying to get a resolution. But if you haven't, it might be worthwhile to see if non-verbal communication is the key to getting some words out of him. Like when he went out to smoke, rather than following him out and telling him you're about ready to leave because he's not talking to you enough...instead pulling up a chair next to him, taking his hand, and sitting quietly with him for a while. If he feels safe and not pressed for an answer, you never know what he might have to say. From your description of his family, it sounds like he might be desperate for someone to love him without demanding his obedience or coming after him with words. Does that make sense? He's not dealing with that in a healthy way, but as his wife you have a unique opportunity to help him heal.
Also, it's very possible that you have unresolved issues relating to being in a cross-cultural marriage, which would be worth looking into. Perhaps too, he would be willing to see a counselor by himself, and might be even more open to the idea if the counselor himself was Japanese (ie: someone who he knows can understand him as a Japanese man, from the perspective of the culture they both grew up in, and who he could thus trust and respect to give good advice. It is easy for expats to feel that people from the majority culture are looking down their noses at them and just wanting them to assimilate).
_____________________________
Moo
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Ignored by spouse/silent treatment - 11/21/2009 11:53:46 AM
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hnt
Posts: 665
Joined: 4/11/2005
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What an awful story!
Has he received any help for himself? People that have been abused tend to clam up, because they feel any answer they give they will be attacked for. It doesn't matter if the person they speak to is safer than she is. That is what they have lived with, and people can say what they wish - that is what you do expect from others.
It sounds like in the past he wanted to deal with those issues, but he hasn't take the steps to do that. It could be he has resigned himself to thinking he can't or isn't capable of it. He most certainly is, and it would be the healthiest thing for him. He needs some personal therapy alone so he can learn to rise up from the hurts of the past. He isn't communicating out of self protection, and I realize you are NOT someone he needs protection from - he will do this towards everyone due to his past. He doesn't feel worthy of his opinions, etc because chances are good he has been told that many times they are stupid, etc - and now believes it. Could be he has lost his sense of self worth.
His silence maybe the only way he knows how to deal with the hurt of the past. Its not an uncommon thing. Its not anything to be ashamed of, and he just hasn't learned how to do life in a healthy environment.
There have been many that have walked in his shoes before, and counseling may be a long journey but so worth it. The mental chains of abuse are much stronger than people wish to give credit towards. Encourage him to get help for himself, because you want him to learn he is worthy of being loved. His past experiences may have colored that reality.
You need to educate yourself on what happens to individuals that have dealt with this in the past. It could help you understand him better, and when his path to healing starts you will understand WHY he is reacting the way he is. Its easier to deal with when you understand the dynamics. Sounds like this poor man has no sense of worth, because it has been slowly stripped away. It doesn't always come back automatically, but it can be done when his eyes are opened - and he finally learns to open his heart. He can learn to feel safe. The pain of the past could be his chains for the future. He needs to learn how to safely cut them loose so he can live.
My prayers are with you all.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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